Monday, May 26, 2008

Squat Training...

Special kettlebell class this morning at 10am. I worked out along with my class doing some "I go you go" style. Maura joined my kettlebell, this was our warm up for a squat workout. Because it is a holiday today the Press closed early, which made for a busy day at the gym. Good times. Here is how it all went down...

Back Squat
~My plan was to goof around with some heavier weights... but too much fun yesterday made 205lbs feel heavy, so I backed down to 185. One of the guys pointed out that my knees are starting to turn in... I have noticed this as well. He said to train adductors, this didn't really make sense to me. I looked in Starting Strength, and sure enough... Mark Rippetoe explained that weak adductors will force the Rectus Femoris to help out... which causes the knees to cave. Cool! I always have to know why.

That was it. Pretty much a couch day today. Two PR's last week and a BBQ made for a lazy day.


Mark Reifkind said...

think about it; if the adductors are turning the knees IN, then they are doing what they are supposed to do when they are strong, adduct the leg. the opposing muscles are the glutes which abduct the leg. you need to drive the knees out as you hit the sticking point to actitvate the glutes as well as arch HARD into the bar to get the erects to erect you.

good work .

Brett Jones said...

I will have to echo Rif's opinion here - the adductors are also considered the "4th" hamstring and function as a hip extensor as well but to say that an aDductor functions as a hip aBductor is interesting to say the least - and/but muscle "function" is dependent on joint angle so in the grand scheme of things who knows.

What we do know is that your knees are caving in so lets focus on the movement and not the "muscles" -
The "Fix"- have your training partner place their hands on the outside of your lower leg (just below the knee) and while performing a squat (bodyweight or goblet squat NOT a PL squat) have them apply pressure inward - you will need to apply pressure outward to keep the knees in alignment on the way down and on the way up.
Important - the pressure applied inward by your partner is enough pressure to cause you to have to press out NOT enough to injure you.
Also hit some outside toe pulls to get the glute medius firing better before the partner drill.
And while the OL shoes may be facilitating certain parts of your squat they may be locking down other areas - just an idea...

Also noticed on your last DL max that you tried to "gun" the weight off of the floor - think smooth acceleration.

fawn said...

Rif and Brett,
When the guys at The Press said weak adductors... my thoughts were the same as yours. My thoughts were that glut med is not firing and I did some middle toe pulls. ABductor weakness would make more sense to me, but then I read Starting Strength...

The knees rolling in seems to be a new thing. Plus, it feels more like squeezing in, rather than rolling... I don't recall it being a problem before. I noticed this happening on the 240 last week.

We actually rigged up mini bands to do the exact drill Brett recommended at the gym. I have no problem keeping my knees tracking where they should with no weight or light weight... even at 185, my knees stayed where they belong.

However, you know the saying... it is all easy until it gets heavy. LOL! I guess 205 was heavy yesterday.

Thanks for the feedback. My plan is to start a new cycle next week, with focus on my knees.

Franz Snideman said...

ahhhh....yeah.....diddo what those guys said!

185 a back off set? Either way that is still weight. Nice job Fawn!

fawn said...

Alright... my 3 favorite coaches weighed in, it is official! Thanks for the feedback Franz!

Katie, KettlebellKate said...

Just lightly weighing in here: where is the weight on your feet? Check out your "wide" stance Uttkatasana with your jumpstretch or thera-band set up.

fawn said...

Uttkatasana with a band... I will give it a shot and get back to you.

In powerliftingland the weight is on the heels. Uttkatasana, weight on heels as well. I do know I need to be a bit more mindful regarding the heavy lifts. Sometimes when I squat, instead of strategizing... I am thinking "OMG, how the hell do I get this piece of crap off me?!"

Brett Jones said...

The progression with the band for the RNT work is to go with less resistance as you improve so that your body has to trigger the correct pattern with less and less "assistance" from the band - so progress on lower the band tension but maintaining the proper alignment.
You said it stays pretty good on bodyweight and KB but your PL squat is or should be a different form and alignment (and in different shoes??)
Use the bands and an empty bar and see if using the bands in your PL position makes a difference.

fawn said...

My form stays the same (knees tracking over toes) until the weight gets heavy... 200lbs or more. At 185lbs, form was fine. It's not so much my knees "roll" in, but I unintentionally "squeeze" them in.

Shoes don't seem to make a difference... and neither does kettlebell/barbell, but then again, I can't clean 200lbs worth of kb's.

However my kb form is much closer to neutral, toes are only slightly turned out and a more narrow stance, and I drop ATG with kb's.